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Al Gough critiques the SV finale & rejects Michael's voice... - tasabian [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
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Al Gough critiques the SV finale & rejects Michael's voice... [Aug. 7th, 2011|06:49 pm]
tasabian
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Some quotes from Al (he's promoting his "who asked for it?" revamp of Charlie's Angels.):

"Rosenbaum keeps sending me voice tapes to be the voice of Charlie — seriously. I think [Michael] might be a little young, but we’d love to have any [Smallville alumni] on the show.”

Gough copped to not keeping up on the show, especially during the past year as he groomed ABC’s Angels, so he “thought a lot of [the series finale] was confusing. “It’s hard to wrap up any show that’s gone 10 years, and I think they did the best they could.”

(Some backhanded praise there...)

“The final image was always Clark Kent suiting up [as Superman and flying away — but back in the day there was going to be more of thing with him and Lex (played by Rosenbaum)…. It all came down to the Lex-Clark dynamic.”

Link

So do you think Al & Miles could have pulled off a better finale? I like the idea of more Clex but always suspected that Requiem was their finale idea & that B & K used it for Lana's goodbye instead.

Poll #1767900 Who would have made a better finale?

Who would have produced a better finale?

Al & Miles?
17(77.3%)
Brian & Kelly?
5(22.7%)

Al criticizing the SV finale is...

amusing!
8(21.6%)
catty!
14(37.8%)
four months too late!
15(40.5%)

Where is Tom right this minute?

Sunning his naked self on a beach!
14(28.6%)
Playing golf with his posse of hot boyfriends!
8(16.3%)
Sending Michael a naughty text message!
16(32.7%)
Reading a script with a perfect role for him which will delight us all!
11(22.4%)


And to conclude: Michael hotness from 2008, via a fan on his facebook page. Photo: Lynn C. Source

Photobucket
linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: complicat
2011-08-07 11:16 pm (UTC)
Mmm, yes Al. It should have been all about the Lex-Clark dynamic but let's face it, their finale would have been all about Lana i.e. Lex and Clark fighting over her and becoming enemies because of that. So yeah, pretty much Requiem (except perhaps without Super-Lana). Which would probably still have been an improvement over what we actually got because at least Michael and Tom would have made it slashy and not really about Lana at all no matter what the text said.

I think Al's implication that it would have been an awesome finale all about Lex and Clark if only he had still been in charge is a bit rich though, since seasons 4-7 were far from awesome and they lost interest in Lex long before Brian and Kelly took over!

Cute Michael pic! That must be from Collectormania - he's hairier than I remember!

Given Al's tendency towards exaggeration/lying Rosenbaum keeps sending me voice tapes probably means Michael left him one 'Charlie' voicemail as a joke! Still, Michael would be a fabulous Charlie voice (although then I would have to watch this show so...hmm)
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-07 11:25 pm (UTC)
It should have been all about the Lex-Clark dynamic but let's face it, their finale would have been all about Lana i.e. Lex and Clark fighting over her and becoming enemies because of that.
They did love their triangles! And their ANGST. More of Michael & Tom would have definitely been a plus, though.

Cute Michael pic! That must be from Collectormania - he's hairier than I remember!
It is! The lady who posted instructed him to return to the UK!

Given Al's tendency towards exaggeration/lying Rosenbaum keeps sending me voice tapes probably means Michael left him one 'Charlie' voicemail as a joke! Still, Michael would be a fabulous Charlie voice (although then I would have to watch this show so...hmm)
I bet you're right - hope Michael isn't bothered that Al makes it sound like he's pleading for the gig. I would watch for Michael's sexy purr, definitely.
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[User Picture]From: gildinwen
2011-08-07 11:22 pm (UTC)
I always thought with the way Season 7 ended that Al and Miles did have the idea that Lex and Clark would become *Lex Luthor* and *Superman* With Lex knowing his secret. I wouldn't "No" to them writing something to that effect....

(It is 4 months too late though)

Edited at 2011-08-07 11:25 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-07 11:26 pm (UTC)
I always thought with the way Season 7 ended that Al and Miles did have the idea that Lex and Clark would become *Lex Luthor* and *Superman* With Lex knowing his secret. I wouldn't "No" to them writing something to that effect....
Yes, I'd have like that too - Lex knowing the secret is sexy & gives them a future of chess moves & trying to outmaneuver each other....
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[User Picture]From: firebunny
2011-08-07 11:36 pm (UTC)
I don't know if AlMiles could have produced a better finale, but they definitely would have written a better script. I had my issues with them as showrunners, but they were (not sure if they still are) good writers, much better than Brian & Kelly.


Went with "Sunning his naked self on a beach!" for the last question, although I'm not sure he's doing it right this minute as much as he's been doing it a lot this summer.

A friend and I have a theory (which has yet to be disproved) that when the weather's really hot it's because TW is naked. During the heat wave a couple weeks ago we sent each other texts like "Didn't think I'd ever say this, but put some clothes on, Tom"
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-08 02:20 am (UTC)
A friend and I have a theory (which has yet to be disproved) that when the weather's really hot it's because TW is naked. During the heat wave a couple weeks ago we sent each other texts like "Didn't think I'd ever say this, but put some clothes on, Tom"
I like this theory! Heat Wave caused by a Tom with too much naked leisure time!

I don't know if AlMiles could have produced a better finale, but they definitely would have written a better script. I had my issues with them as showrunners, but they were (not sure if they still are) good writers, much better than Brian & Kelly.
It's interesting to wonder what would have happened if the other two producers are stayed on instead (Slavkin & Swimmer) For better or worse (& sometimes it was definitely worse) AlMiles also seemed completely indifferent to fan pressure, whereas B & K seemed to want to please all the fans all the time, which led to some odd script compromising.
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-08 02:14 am (UTC)
To me, the first three years are the SV gold standard, never bettered in terms of writing & characterization. But I'd agree that some of B & K trumps mid-period Al & Miles, ie the soapy S6.
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[User Picture]From: jeannev
2011-08-08 12:23 am (UTC)
I hope Tom is doing all of those things. Can he be naked while playing golf with his posse of hot boyfriends while on a beach?

The more time I've reflected on SV, the more I've started to reach certain conclusions. One being that the show shouldn't have gone on so long. It should not have delved so much into a Superman show while simultaneously keeping Clark from being Superman. An earlier end of the show would've prevented that. And so I do think AlMiles probably could've pulled off a better finale IF the show had ended at the end of S5 (S6 would be pushing it).

And no matter how much AlMiles were bigger assholes, the reality is that they were better writers then Kelly and Brian.
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-08 02:12 am (UTC)
I hope Tom is doing all of those things. Can he be naked while playing golf with his posse of hot boyfriends while on a beach?
Yes, he can, sending hottie photos of himself to Michael all the while!

And so I do think AlMiles probably could've pulled off a better finale IF the show had ended at the end of S5 (S6 would be pushing it).
To end with everyone on the "cusp" would have been interesting...of course, then fandom would have been yelling for more!

And no matter how much AlMiles were bigger assholes, the reality is that they were better writers then Kelly and Brian.
I agree. And additionally they had a better stable of writers in the early years, then B & K in the latter. Lineage is a great episode because Miles had the idea but passed it over to Ken Biller to write.
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[User Picture]From: jeannev
2011-08-08 02:23 am (UTC)
Well, always leave them wanting more is not a bad place to end up. As it was, they lost so many people along the way, and just burned out fans like myself.

SV never had great writers. But it does seem like the better ones bailed way before the end. Then again, I do believe that the quality of writing had a lot to do with who was in charge, and Brian and Kelly left much to be desired as writers.
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[User Picture]From: dawnybee
2011-08-08 03:28 am (UTC)
It’s hard to wrap up any show that’s gone 10 years, and I think they did the best they could.”



Meow!

Not that I loved the finale and not that there isn't an element of truth there. I didn't find it confusing just overly addled with elements that wasn't needed. And I think I would've liked what AlMiles would've done with Clark and Lex in the finale. That said: Al needs to shut up and sit down. He was booted from his show, that sucked for him and Miles (and for me cos I liked the duo) but by speaking of the finale this way is only going to have the effect of more people asking to clarify his comments and he'd either have to defend them or clean it up. He needs to just make this trainwrecky "Charlie's Angels" work (people were questioning if it's any good since Robert Wagner--who would've only had to do voice-overs as Charlie--left the project).
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-08 03:53 am (UTC)
I'm curious if this was just Al's mouth running off on him (as is wont to happen) or if there's some genuine beef with his former protegees & he's been aching to say something.

And I think I would've liked what AlMiles would've done with Clark and Lex in the finale.
I'd always wondered if the Requiem Clexana plot was AlMiles finale plan & got used for Lana's send-off instead. If not, I'd like to hear a bit more about what he had in mind for Clex. As you say, now he's gone there, he's bound to get more SV questions now!

people were questioning if it's any good since Robert Wagner--who would've only had to do voice-overs as Charlie--left the project
There's a story there too!
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[User Picture]From: dawnybee
2011-08-08 04:33 am (UTC)
I'd always wondered if the Requiem Clexana plot was AlMiles finale plan & got used for Lana's send-off instead.

I don't I would've liked *that* for the finale even though there was alot about "Requiem" I loved. Except for the agonizing Clark pain and the ridiculous parting of he and Lana. I did love jealous!Lex's and jealous!Oliver machinations "If I can't have you Clark, no one will!"

There's a story there too!


Robert Wagner does commercials for that are pretty much informercials for lowrent companies. He willingly passed up a steady, easy gig? Something's off there.
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[User Picture]From: frelling_tralk
2011-08-08 12:44 pm (UTC)
In their defense I don't think that even A&M would have ended it on Lana in a kryptonian suit as a superhero, at the same time as setting up Clark becoming Superman in the finale *g* But yeah I do think it's plausible that they might have ended it on something similar to Lex using kryptonite to keep Clana apart, or making Lana a factor in the Clex rivalry.

ETA But, depending on how it was handled, honestly I might not have hated that. As you say with "If I can't have you Clark, no one will!", a lot of the Clexana could very easily be seen through slashy goggles! Lex wanting Clark to be there on his wedding day is still a scene that comes off as incredibly slashy, so tbh I would still find that Clexana subtext more interesting to read into than the actual finale being mostly about preparing for a wedding that ultimately never came off anyway :shrugs: An old complaint now, but it wasn't really what I would expected the show to be leading up to when you look back at the pilot and the first season, and al of the incredible potential there

Edited at 2011-08-08 12:51 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-09 02:41 am (UTC)
Unless they ripped the lid right off the subtext - "it was never about Lana, Clark, it was about YOU" - I'd have been very wary of a Clexana finale. Because so much of S6 was leaden melodrama to me, the characters acting like soap archetypes, not the Clark, Lex and yes Lana, I'd liked in the earlier seasons.

I am curious to know that they had in mind though!
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[User Picture]From: frelling_tralk
2011-08-08 12:36 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't be surprised if Al wasn't a bit pissed off with it ending on a memory wipe for Lex. That does make the seven years of Lex's journey, and building into the rivalry with Clark, kind of pointless when it ultimately ends on cloned Lex being wiped of all his memories

I could see Al having a wtf reaction to that, especially if they had vaguely discussed how they always saw SV ending (and I got the impression that it had been discussed among the writing team as A&M often mentioned in interviews of having a five year plan and knowing what the final ending would be). Perhaps he was hoping that the endpoint would still be somewhat similar to what they had originally discussed?
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-09 02:43 am (UTC)
If I could change one thing about the finale, it would be the memory wipe - I doubt Al & Miles would have gone the clone Lex route either.
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[User Picture]From: tariel22
2011-08-08 08:32 am (UTC)
What a choice, AlMiles or B&K. I dislike both teams so much. I do think AlMiles were much better storytellers, but they never seemed to like or respect Clark, so I doubt I would have liked their finale more. I also don't think Tom would have signed on for another two seasons if they had stayed, so S8 would have been the last. I suspect their final season would have contained even more Lana worship and lots of Oliver Queen (because God gave to Justin with both hands), but perhaps less deification of Chloe. Would Michael have stayed? IDK. But I'm certain we wouldn't have seen the confident and capable Clark (played by a visibly happier Tom, IMO) that we got in the first half of S8, before S&S were pulled off SV to work on Melrose Place.

Oh, and Al? STFU. Jerk.

What a gorgeous pic of Michael! I love the scruff.
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-09 02:50 am (UTC)
Tommy looks MAD in your icon! Also: hot.

I'm certain we wouldn't have seen the confident and capable Clark (played by a visibly happier Tom, IMO) that we got in the first half of S8, before S&S were pulled off SV to work on Melrose Place.
That's an interesting point - what would an S & S finale have been like? I always thought they were the slightly better writing team.

I also don't think Tom would have signed on for another two seasons if they had stayed, so S8 would have been the last. I suspect their final season would have contained even more Lana worship
Do you think KK would have come back though? If Tom couldn't coax her back, I doubt AlMiles could have...denied of their leading lady/obsession, it's interesting to speculate what AlMiles would have done instead...the same angst plots with Lois in Lana's place? (B & K did a little of that...)

Would love to know if Tom had any input on the finale, beyond getting Michael back!

Oh, and Al? STFU. Jerk.
He must have more interviews on the horizon - wonder if there's more running off at the mouth in store?
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[User Picture]From: tariel22
2011-08-10 11:25 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that's the icon I use when I'm annoyed. :)

I always thought they were the slightly better writing team.

I agree (they wrote some of my very favorite episodes), and their stories portrayed Clark the way I like to see him (heroic, proactive, compassionate) more often than B&K's did. I also think they understood Superman better, and never lost sight of the fact that Smallville's Clark would someday be that hero.

Do you think KK would have come back though?

Just for the five episodes she was contractually obligated to do, but I think they would have had a lot more about Lana outside of those episodes, even without the character onscreen.

Of course I have no idea what they actually would have done for a pre-planned final season, but I'm convinced their treatment of Clark (and Tom, for that matter) would have made my head explode. I will never regret their departure from the show.

Would love to know if Tom had any input on the finale, beyond getting Michael back!

I certainly think the decision not to wear the suit beyond that final shirt rip was all Tom's, and I applaud him for sticking to his guns on that.

He must have more interviews on the horizon - wonder if there's more running off at the mouth in store?

I know questions about Smallville are inevitable, but he should take a lesson from Michael and learn a little grace. His condescending comment about doing "the best they could" just sounds like sour grapes, and makes him look bad.
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[User Picture]From: frelling_tralk
2011-08-08 12:33 pm (UTC)
Both amusing and catty *g*

And say what you will about A&M, but they did produce some really amazing episodes early on for Clex like Lineage, Memoria, Nemesis etc. So I think they would have given Clex a really strong send-off, their problem was always in struggling with pacing their story out each season, and falling into repetitive filler. But when they had to hit the big points, 9 times out of 10 they nailed it

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[User Picture]From: yamair
2011-08-08 08:20 pm (UTC)
I was going to come in here and say he needs to stfu, but you're right, they did make some awesome Clex moments. I still wouldn't trust them with the ending though, and I hate the way they treated both Lana and Kristin. I'm just glad the show is over tbh, reading his comments reminds me of how vexed I could get about it.
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[User Picture]From: frelling_tralk
2011-08-08 08:27 pm (UTC)
A lot of the time they didn't even write very good Clex moments tbh when it came to writing them in general as best friends, hence fandom joking about how frequently their interaction consisted of Clark wondering in to the mansion to ask for a favour. It wasn't that much less repetitive than all the loft endings for Clana at times. BUT they did seem to excel when it came to writing the bigger moments. It's hard to look at episodes like Shattered and Memoria and remind yourself that they aired in a season which included episodes like Magnetic and Velocity *g*
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[User Picture]From: tasabian
2011-08-09 02:38 am (UTC)
A lot of the time they didn't even write very good Clex moments tbh when it came to writing them in general as best friends, hence fandom joking about how frequently their interaction consisted of Clark wondering in to the mansion to ask for a favour.
It wasn't a hugely convincing friendship but that's what made it very convincing homoeroticism - irrevocably drawn back to each other by deep yearnings beyond their control!
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